Searay 18 Seville freshen followed by engine disaster

biasbilt

Seaman
Joined
Aug 13, 2010
Messages
53
Hi Guys,

Firstly, let me say hi and how are you all doing? I've been a lurker for a while. I've been mucking around with boats most of my life and used to have a 17' UK style speed boat, with a 90 V4 Johnson. It was a typical UK boat - narrow and fast with a deep V for cuttingthrough the chop here. After a few years, it got sold as I was away too much with the Army (served in the Engineers in Iraq).

Fast forward about 8 years and I'm married to a gorgeous girl called Kate and living in a little town on a beautiful river in the South West of England. Sooooo, the wife and I have decided a boat is totally neccessary and i've looked at loads, form outboard centre consoles to ski boats, and we eventually narrowed the choice down to a bowrider. I looked a couple, but they all had problems, rot, or trashed interiors, or just too expensive. Eventually I found a Searay 18 Seville, fitted with a 4.3 175 hp engine, fairly nearby, at a good price. I had a good look, and except for a some electrical issues, the boat was pretty good.

The hull was in pretty good condition, but needed a polish, the upholstery was soft and flexible but needed a good clean, and the electricals were a pretty simple fix. The engine started instantly, idled okay, pumped water and had clean oil. The skeg had a chunk broken off, but that was going to be an easy fix when the leg was apart, to have weld a new one on, over the winter.

After 2 weekends of work I was ready to splash. I had completly ripped out all the bodged in wiring and sorted all the guages except the trim guage. I also sorted the trim function, repaired the hole in the transom for the speedo wire - a bit of rot which will have to get sorted over the winter, repaired the trim sender including running new wires, new auto bilge pump and fixed the blower. I also did lots of detailing tidying the wiring every where, but especially in the eingine compartment. I also sorted mooring lines, fenders, anchor etc. It was meant to be a big day as my brother was back for the weekeend on his pre-deployment leave as he's about to go to Afghanistan for 6 months.

We launched and while he took the truck and trailer away, I motored up the river to the quay. The boat wasn't quite running right, needing a high idle but fine other than that, with a good temperature. We set off down the river, with the boat going well. The champagne cork was popped and we were all happy. bunnies. The girl's wanted the cork, so I spun round to get it, and when we slowed to collect it up, the engine died. I struggled to get it started, but managed to restart, but I did notice that the carb wa flooding a little, so made a note that I needed to do a rebuild. Further down the river, we slowed to let a fleet of racing dingies past and the engine died again. I checked spark - a bit weak, and fuel, too much and flooding. This time I couldn't get it too start again, flattened both batteries, and had to be towed to a mooring. To cheer ourselves up, we walked up to the pub and got stuck in to a few beers.....

Next day, I cameback with a fresh battery, managed to get started with a lot of Easy-Start and shot back up the river. As i got near the slip, the engine was sounding a bit rough, but the temp was only 60 deg C (don't know what that is in Fahrenheit, but it is pretty cool), and I knew that I couldn't stop, as I throttled back to come in to the slip, the engine died again, so I lobbed out the anchor, until I could get a tow in. At this point I was releived to be back, but pissed at not having a good boat, and alreay ordering the new parts to get it running properly.

I ordered plugs, leads, new filter seperator, fuel pump filter, carb rebuild kit, leads, distributor cap, rotor and coil. The following the weekend, I started the work. Instantly I was concerned when I found water in 3 cylinders when the plugs came out. I was going to do a compression test, but when I checked under the oil filler, I knew there wasn't much point, with a lot of mayo in there. When I opened the drain taps, no water came out until I broke the scale and sediment out of the manifolds and block - not good!

The following day (Sunday), I woke up early because I was so pissed and was at the workshop by 6.30 in the morning. By 9, the engine was out, and by 12, i had stripped the engine of all ancilliaries, removed the heads and was down to a short motor. Not good news with both head gaskets gone (a gap in the gasket about 3/4" wide between 2 and 4, and every other fire ring blown or on the way out). The other major concern was that the block was filled with sediment - this probably caused the overheating which led to the gaskets going in the first place - however long ago. I finished stripping the block and bagging every part for re-assembly, before taking it over to a mate for advice. (He runs a business perpping 1930's Grand Prix cars, so knows what he's talking about).

The decision has been made to completely rebuild, so I'm having the block and head acid dipped and cleaned, before machining for +030 thou pistons, with new valves, bearings, gaskets, coreplugs and seals etc. Luckily, the crank and rods are good to go, possibly with a little polish on the crank, but no more. The heads will be reworked, with the valve seats being recut, and the head/block being skimmed to ensure they are flat. All my parts have arrived, and I'm hoping to collect the cleaned block tomorrow, to drop it off at the machine shop. As soon as it comes back from there, I'll be on with the rebuild. I've set a deadline of getting the boat back on the water by the end of August so wish me luck.

There are a few good bits to this story - when I checked the leg, the oil was perfect, and it looks great with a fresh coat of paint. We will also have a boat with an engine that will be good for another 10 years.

I'll try and get some pics up, as I know that with pics, the thread is USELESS!:D

Mods, I've put this here, as I intend to keep this thread updated with the freshening of the boat - starting with the engine, before finishing the interior and a very thorough check for rot (I'm not brave enough yet...!):(

Cheers,

Toby
 

biasbilt

Seaman
Joined
Aug 13, 2010
Messages
53
Re: Searay 18 Seville freshen and small disaster

Re: Searay 18 Seville freshen and small disaster

I haven't got any pictures of the boat at the moment. The first shows the waterline inside of the bellhousing and the next 2 show the RH bank and the LH bank respectively. There was no obvious signs of where water leaked from the block into the bell housing, so I don't think it is cracked, and there were no tide marks on the outside of the bellhousing/engine. Can rainwater drain into the bellhousing from externally? The boat was sitting for a year without being used, or so the PO told me. What are your thoughts?

Cheers,

Toby
 

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oops!

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Oct 18, 2007
Messages
12,932
Re: Searay 18 Seville freshen and small disaster

Re: Searay 18 Seville freshen and small disaster

hi......welcome to i boats.

the waterline is from sitting water in the bilge....a poor winterization.
i will be shocked if the block is NOT cracked.

i am also guessing that the manifolds are toast....that is why you have water in your cylinders.
you will need to pressure test the manifolds,,,,,,in the adults only section of the merc forum....there are instructions.
dont skip this step because you can hydro lock your new motor and bend the rods.
while the long block is rebuilt....i would have someone tear down the starter....it has been sitting in water and will look just like your bell interior......may as well check the alternator while you are at it....as most starter shops are also alternator shops as well.

a full re assemble only takes a few hours...and as you know....the install does not take long...

keep us posted.
oops
 

biasbilt

Seaman
Joined
Aug 13, 2010
Messages
53
Re: Searay 18 Seville freshen and small disaster

Re: Searay 18 Seville freshen and small disaster

Hi Oops, thanks for your reply.

Regarding the water in the boat, there is absolutely no evidence of water inside the boat, either marking the interior, bildge or the engine, so I don't think that is where the water has come from. that's why I'm mystified. Look could not clean all the nooks and crannies to that level without repainting every single component. Once the block comes back, it will be checked very carefully for cracking in the area inside the bellhousing.

As for the poor winterization, you may well be right, as water couldn't even get out of the drain plugs, and while it doesn't often get below freezing down here, we did have a cold winter this last one. I've already planned for pressure testing the heads before they are machined, and will add the manifolds to the list. There's no way I'm going to risk my new engine!

Cheers,

Toby
 

boatnut74

Lieutenant Commander
Joined
Aug 29, 2010
Messages
1,835
Re: Searay 18 Seville freshen and small disaster

Re: Searay 18 Seville freshen and small disaster

It would be best to have the block magnufluxed if you didn't plan on it already. There are sometimes cracks that are hard to see with the naked eye and would hate to see you go through all the work and have a cracked block. It's still a bummer the engine went right after you got it, I had a similiar experience last fall.
 

biasbilt

Seaman
Joined
Aug 13, 2010
Messages
53
Re: Searay 18 Seville freshen and small disaster

Re: Searay 18 Seville freshen and small disaster

I'm thinking that i will do the outsdie of the block either with dye penetrant testing, or mod the exhaust manifold method and fill the block with acetone after putting the core plugs in. The second method will depend on how deep I can fill it befreo it overflows in the valley iin comparison with the water passages in the top of the block. It will get tested though - I'm not going to do all this work for it to go tits up again.

The biggest problem is that these engines are not common in the Uk, so i can't just grab a replacement automotive block and rebuild it to marine specs:mad:
 

mnypitboat

Lieutenant Junior Grade
Joined
May 31, 2010
Messages
1,091
Re: Searay 18 Seville freshen and small disaster

Re: Searay 18 Seville freshen and small disaster

I'm thinking that i will do the outsdie of the block either with dye penetrant testing, or mod the exhaust manifold method and fill the block with acetone after putting the core plugs in. The second method will depend on how deep I can fill it befreo it overflows in the valley iin comparison with the water passages in the top of the block. It will get tested though - I'm not going to do all this work for it to go tits up again.

The biggest problem is that these engines are not common in the Uk, so i can't just grab a replacement automotive block and rebuild it to marine specs:mad:

I was just going to ask how common or how hard it would be to just get another engine. I know over here, we can get them pretty cheap. Some of the venders have them for as cheap as $1300 American for a complete longblock. Plus just about every small GM truck or van came with it and a lot of larger trucks since about 89.
 

Friscoboater

Captain
Joined
Jul 3, 2009
Messages
3,095
Re: Searay 18 Seville freshen and small disaster

Re: Searay 18 Seville freshen and small disaster

Man that stinks. I am sorry you have to go through this, but the boat will be perfect when you finish. Stay safe over there.
 

biasbilt

Seaman
Joined
Aug 13, 2010
Messages
53
Re: Searay 18 Seville freshen and small disaster

Re: Searay 18 Seville freshen and small disaster

I was just going to ask how common or how hard it would be to just get another engine. I know over here, we can get them pretty cheap. Some of the venders have them for as cheap as $1300 American for a complete longblock. Plus just about every small GM truck or van came with it and a lot of larger trucks since about 89.

They're like hens teeth over here, as only used in imported US vehicles and boats, and all the marine versions that aren't in boats any more are equally sh#gged. If i got an old one out of a truck, I'd still need to rebuild it as it'd probably be worn out. A new long block is about ?2700 plus shipping, which is only ?100 less than we paid. I reckon I can have this baby back together for just ?1000, so it's still a lot cheaper, and I know that it will have been rebuilt properly, with new parts where required.
 

biasbilt

Seaman
Joined
Aug 13, 2010
Messages
53
Re: Searay 18 Seville freshen and small disaster

Re: Searay 18 Seville freshen and small disaster

Man that stinks. I am sorry you have to go through this, but the boat will be perfect when you finish. Stay safe over there.

Like you, I'll never know whether the PO knew or not but I do know that by next summer, we'll have a perfect boat with good mechanicals and NO rot anywhere. It's pretty solid at the moment, but I'll be checking every where for rot and repairing what is neccessary over the winter. I've found very little so far, but you can't buy a 20 yo boat in the UK and expect it to be totally perfect, as it's just sooo wet here.

There may also be a bit of interior remodelling to create a (topless) sunbathing area for the Admiral!:D
 

mnypitboat

Lieutenant Junior Grade
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May 31, 2010
Messages
1,091
Re: Searay 18 Seville freshen and small disaster

Re: Searay 18 Seville freshen and small disaster

They're like hens teeth over here, as only used in imported US vehicles and boats, and all the marine versions that aren't in boats any more are equally sh#gged. If i got an old one out of a truck, I'd still need to rebuild it as it'd probably be worn out. A new long block is about ?2700 plus shipping, which is only ?100 less than we paid. I reckon I can have this baby back together for just ?1000, so it's still a lot cheaper, and I know that it will have been rebuilt properly, with new parts where required.

Sounds like the best plan. Hopefully that block checks out. Good luck and keep us informed.
 

biasbilt

Seaman
Joined
Aug 13, 2010
Messages
53
Re: Searay 18 Seville freshen and small disaster

Re: Searay 18 Seville freshen and small disaster

Well, I've got the engine back from being acid dipped and things are starting to look up. It's had a good inspection and looks okay, but has not been crack tested yet. If we find any, they'll be repaired by 'V' ing out the cracks and filling with JB Weld. I think this will work, as raw water cooled engines don't have a pressurized cooling system like a car, and an engineer with enormous experience has also said that he has had good results doing it this way.

The block and heads have been thoroughly cleaned during the acid dipping process - the guy doing it said he got a lot of sediment out of the heads as well as the block. The boat used to live on a muddy tidal river, and my guess it that at low tide witht the leg pressing into the mud, it pusshed mud into the intake on the leg which then got transported intot the cooling system. With the restricted flow, this eventually built up with the rust until it couldn't cool properly and pop went the head gaskets.

I've also checked the exhaust manifolds with acetone and more good news - they checked out okay. I still need to pull the plugs out so I can finish flushing them, but I need some heat to do that, and I've run out of acetylene. I think the water which had got into them actually came form the cylinder, rather than the other way. Big relief as I didn't need any more expense!:)

The block will get dropped to the machine shop on Monday with instructions to get it turned around asap - I'm still aiming for a resplash over the last weekend in August, even though it will probably meana bit of kitchen table rebuilding... I'll also get the machine shop to put the pistons onto the con-rods, as they need to be heated to insert the wrist pins.

The heads are going to be pressure tested and will need a bit of welding before being machined (skimmed and re-cut valve seats), as the water passages have corroded very close to the fire ring, but if I can be building up the block while the heads are being done, the timing should work okay.

I've also put in a couple of pics so you can see the boat - it needs a good polish to bring the gel coat back up, so that will be another job to do while I'm waiting for the engine work to be done.
 

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oops!

Supreme Mariner
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Re: Searay 18 Seville freshen followed by engine disaster

, but when I checked under the oil filler, I knew there wasn't much point, with a lot of mayo in there.

Cheers,

Toby

my friend.........i hate to be a nay sayer here...::redface:but i work around boats all day long.......you have a cracked block......it cannot be fixed with jb weld.:(
reguardless of the pressure issues or not.......read in our mercrusier i/o forum........water in the oil usually means only one thing.....a broken motor.
may i suggest you not spend a dime on that motor till you know its not cracked.....

i have spent thousands of dollars trying/hoping for the same results as you..........and never acheived it.....the motor is toast :(

and incedentally....the evedince that the boat had water in the bilge is in pic one....the rust line in the bell.

please understand toby........i dont mean to come off mean or short......i just know what the problem is.....i have seen 50 motors just like the one you describe.
i want to see you on the water as soon as possible and havin a few beers with the ladys......but you are going about it the hard way bud.
look for a doner boat with a good motor and drive....and really bad interior/smashed hull.
it will be cheaper....faster....and easier on your mind

cheers
oops
 

biasbilt

Seaman
Joined
Aug 13, 2010
Messages
53
Re: Searay 18 Seville freshen followed by engine disaster

my friend.........i hate to be a nay sayer here...::redface:but i work around boats all day long.......you have a cracked block......it cannot be fixed with jb weld.:(
reguardless of the pressure issues or not.......read in our mercrusier i/o forum........water in the oil usually means only one thing.....a broken motor.
may i suggest you not spend a dime on that motor till you know its not cracked.....

i have spent thousands of dollars trying/hoping for the same results as you..........and never acheived it.....the motor is toast :(

and incedentally....the evedince that the boat had water in the bilge is in pic one....the rust line in the bell.

please understand toby........i dont mean to come off mean or short......i just know what the problem is.....i have seen 50 motors just like the one you describe.
i want to see you on the water as soon as possible and havin a few beers with the ladys......but you are going about it the hard way bud.
look for a doner boat with a good motor and drive....and really bad interior/smashed hull.
it will be cheaper....faster....and easier on your mind

cheers
oops

oops,

i hear what you're saying but am goiong to continue with the rebuild until i have EVIDENCE that i have an unrepairable block,which i haven't seen yet
1. with a blown head gasket, there is often an oil water mix - virtually every car engine has this when the gasket blows and this engine had both gaskets gone
2. there is no visual evidence that i have seen to suggest that the block is cracked, once i have core plugs back in and waterway blocked, it will be pressure tested - including the inlet manifold
3. there is NO evidence to suggest the boat has ever had water sitting in the bilge, with no tide mark on the fibreglass interior or the exterior of the engine. the only place is on the INSIDE of the bell housing, the flywheel and coupler, which is why the inspection for any cracking inthe block will focus in this area

regarding the solution, sadly we don't have loads of boats sitting around in the UK as they are regarded as "rich guy's toys", so finding a donor motor is difficult and expensive. it also comes with no guarantee that there won't be the same problems of a corroded/silted up block that will still need to be resolved by a full rebuild.

believe me, as soon as i see evidence that it's toast, i'll not spend a single penny on it, but until that point, i believe that this is the best way to go. I'm using very experienced guys to advise and do my machining, who will advise me of the best route, which is what i believe i'm doing atm. my only expense so far is the cost of cleaning - ?150 and the rebuild kit (which can returned), so i'm not a long way in financially. if it is knackered, I'll find out next week when the machinist has a good look at it and pressure tests.

On a seperate note, I've just started reading the Hull extension thread and am at page 16 - that a lot of work you've done so far. I've resisted the temptation to flick forward to find out what you end up doing, but i'm looking forward to finding out! Props to you so far in the thread, even though i know in really life, you're probably just kicking back on your "new superyacht" wondering what to do with your time....:)
 

oops!

Supreme Mariner
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Oct 18, 2007
Messages
12,932
Re: Searay 18 Seville freshen followed by engine disaster

exellent.....im glad he is going to pressure test it.....here in canada we see that each spring about 30 times.....we call spring "cracked block season"

if it is bad....hopefully someone might have a good core block.

about my "yacht" lol,,,,lets just say its in dry dock right now....waiting for parts,,,,,,lol
i really wish you well, and hope it works out for you, it would be great to see you on the water by the end of august

cheers toby
oops
 

Struc

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Jul 27, 2011
Messages
409
Re: Searay 18 Seville freshen followed by engine disaster

Sorry to hear your misfortune. I'm taking on a similar project - 1988 Sea Ray Seville 20' with the same 4.3l engine. I just picked it up yesterday, and it has been raining off and on since I got back with it, so not much progress, other than getting real good at taking the cover on and off.

I'm absolutely going to have to do the same wiring clean up you did. It's got wiring hanging and a couple of patch jobs that will need to be redone.

Good luck... Hope to keep hearing the progress.

Curt
 

biasbilt

Seaman
Joined
Aug 13, 2010
Messages
53
Re: Searay 18 Seville freshen followed by engine disaster

Sorry to hear your misfortune. I'm taking on a similar project - 1988 Sea Ray Seville 20' with the same 4.3l engine. I just picked it up yesterday, and it has been raining off and on since I got back with it, so not much progress, other than getting real good at taking the cover on and off.

I'm absolutely going to have to do the same wiring clean up you did. It's got wiring hanging and a couple of patch jobs that will need to be redone.

Good luck... Hope to keep hearing the progress.

Curt

Good luck with the wiring. Be careful taking it apart as you'll find all the plastic fittings a really brittle with age - especially the guages. Most of your problems will be corroded wires from the engine end. I found there was a lot of excess wire wasted on the starboard side, aft of the throttle control. This were Mercruiser make a generic loom and the manufacturers don't bother to shorten it. What it means for us is that you can pull it through to take up the slack and just reterminate on fresh wire, rather than having to splice in new wire.

Good luck,

Toby
 

biasbilt

Seaman
Joined
Aug 13, 2010
Messages
53
Re: Searay 18 Seville freshen followed by engine disaster

exellent.....im glad he is going to pressure test it.....here in canada we see that each spring about 30 times.....we call spring "cracked block season"

if it is bad....hopefully someone might have a good core block.

about my "yacht" lol,,,,lets just say its in dry dock right now....waiting for parts,,,,,,lol
i really wish you well, and hope it works out for you, it would be great to see you on the water by the end of august

cheers toby
oops

I had a really good check in the daylight yesterday, and there is no external cracking in the block, so I'm feeling happier. We'll still pressure test to be 100% sure. As for the water in the bell housing - I'm starting to think that it is water that came in from outside, and then being held in there to allow rust, as it is exactly level with hole and the vent on the rhs. This does mean that the starter and alternator need to be checked out though.

Bad news is that one of the heads has a crack in the exhaust seat:mad:, but as they need welding anyway, I'm going to either try and find a replacement pair (my preference) or they'll be welded up. I'll let the machinist make the call on that one.
 

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oops!

Supreme Mariner
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Re: Searay 18 Seville freshen followed by engine disaster

have you ever shipped anything over there from the usa or canada?.....i wonder what it costs
 
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