Why don't most boats have mirrors?

[Home Cookin']

Re: Why don't most boats have mirrors?

ye roight. this sep's not been about there for 30 years. ta.

 

[chriscraft254]

Re: Why don't most boats have mirrors?

Maybe he needs pictures,lmao

I will speak very slowly, on my river, the current only runs down river, but boats tend to run in any friggen direction they please.

There are no stop lights, there are no one way or two way lanes. Nothing but wide open water that at any given point or time anyone operating a boat can travel in any direction they see fit.

This may include up river, down river, diagonal across river, 20 degrees across river 70 degrees across river, Straight across river , ANY degree of direction you chose!!! Must I go on???

I mean do you need pictures?? Your answer to my questions before shows me that you have very limited time on the water. Maybe take a coast gaurd coarse and come back and talk with us.

Guess next we are going to be asked why boats don't have turn signals and why there aren't any bumper regulations for boats or why there aren't any stop signs when exiting a port, ohh and where are the air bags??? etc etc.

 

[Ryanlewis2010]

Re: Why don't most boats have mirrors?

Has any one noticed how mel is not here to say this is SBL posting a new account after he scared away the last guy SBL posted on lol not saying anything but it would be funny and in fl Mirrors are required by law if you tow someone i dont have them but hey wouldnt hurt to have them

 

[Home Cookin']

Re: Why don't most boats have mirrors?

no, he's Strine, where they boat on sand rivers, and have crocs that swim out to sea and eat bowriders.

 

[Myrtonos]

Re: Why don't most boats have mirrors?

I will speak very slowly, on my river, the current only runs down river, but boats tend to run in any friggen direction they please.

The current on any river always flows downstream. Going downstream can therfore be likened to going downhill on land, and upstream like uphill. I know the priority rules on rivers aren't always the same as on the sea, for example, downstream has precedence over upstream.

There are no stop lights, there are no one way or two way lanes. Nothing but wide open water that at any given point or time anyone operating a boat can travel in any direction they see fit.

This may include up river, down river, diagonal across river, 20 degrees across river 70 degrees across river, Straight across river , ANY degree of direction you chose!!! Must I go on???

Acutally some busy Venitian canal junctions have traffic lights. Your river must be pretty wide. Still, there is surely esany to distinguish cross river traffic from traffic following the course of the river. Cross river traffic has more space to react or steer than traffic along the river, the latter is likely to be going futher and faster than cross river traffic. So does traffic along the river have precedence, and if not, why?

Guess next we are going to be asked why boats don't have turn signals and why there aren't any bumper regulations for boats or why there aren't any stop signs when exiting a port, ohh and where are the air bags??? etc etc.

Remember this thread?

 

[halfmoa]

Re: Why don't most boats have mirrors?

My boat has a ski mirror and it's all but completely useless. (well that's not exactly true, it did serve the purpose of blocking a large portion of my forward view) I took it off and the wife threw a fit. I reinstalled it facing directly up so she can check her hair and whatnot. Now we're both happy!

 

[chriscraft254]

Re: Why don't most boats have mirrors?

The current on any river always flows downstream. Going downstream can therfore be likened to going downhill on land, and upstream like uphill. I know the priority rules on rivers aren't always the same as on the sea, for example, downstream has precedence over upstream.




Acutally some busy Venitian canal junctions have traffic lights. Your river must be pretty wide. Still, there is surely esany to distinguish cross river traffic from traffic following the course of the river. Cross river traffic has more space to react or steer than traffic along the river, the latter is likely to be going futher and faster than cross river traffic. So does traffic along the river have precedence, and if not, why?



Remember this thread?

All I can say, is WOW, you really are out there aren't you,lmao Goodbye

 

[Myrtonos]

Re: Why don't most boats have mirrors?

I keep forgetting to respond to this:

Stopping is different (no brakes), control is different (use a rudder & power), power is different (sail, small outboard, diesels, etc., etc.), environment is different (flow, wake, hydrodynamics, etc. - none of which exists on a road), turning is different (boats slide slightly through turns depending on the hull), speed is different (burdened vessel might be doing 50kts while the privileged vessel is doing 5kts - no speed limits generally speaking) ... the list goes on ...

What are burdened and privilaged vessels?

Rivers and roads are alike in really only one manner - they are narrow (relatively speaking) and follow a path. Even if you erase all other traffic and place a single boat on a 1 mile wide river, the dynamic properties of water flowing over a bed erase nearly all other similarities to a road.

Being narrow (relatively speaking) would limit the range of motion you would need look around, and that rivers follow a path. I checked the US rules for inland waterways and one rule is that traffic crossing a river is to yield to traffic following the river course.

 

[southkogs]

Re: Why don't most boats have mirrors?

What are burdened and privilaged vessels?

In a traffic encounter, the burdened vessel is the one which under navigation rules must give way (can also be called the "give way" vessel), while the vessel that has the right of way is called the privileged vessel.

Being narrow (relatively speaking) would limit the range of motion you would need look around, and that rivers follow a path. I checked the US rules for inland waterways and one rule is that traffic crossing a river is to yield to traffic following the river course.

And yet, in that same situation it's very possible for your craft to be at a 12? list (due to a wake from another boat) and yaw of 20? surfing down the same wake ... potentially pulling the rather narrow field of view you need right out of your mirror range. Similar situation in a car would mean that you're already spinning out of control and what you can see means very little at the moment.

Why the big push on the topic, out of curiosity?

 

[Myrtonos]

Re: Why don't most boats have mirrors?

In a traffic encounter, the burdened vessel is the one which under navigation rules must give way (can also be called the "give way" vessel), while the vessel that has the right of way is called the privileged vessel.

I've only heard of them as stand on and give way vessels, and thought of extending to termilology to the drivers of boats themselves, if for example, two people are going to the same port on the same boat and both are licensed skippers one could be the stand-on skipper and the other the give-way skipper. Can anyone here figure out what I mean?

And yet, in that same situation it's very possible for your craft to be at a 12? list (due to a wake from another boat) and yaw of 20? surfing down the same wake ... potentially pulling the rather narrow field of view you need right out of your mirror range. Similar situation in a car would mean that you're already spinning out of control and what you can see means very little at the moment.

Same situation as what, sorry I don't understand. I am not familiar with the terminology like list, I have heard of yaw only in the context of motor vehicles. I don't like it too many people are sitting on one side of a boat but not the other as it tips to one side, do there exist systems to fix that. When lots of people are sitting on one side I try to sit on the other.
Does yaw control exist on any vessels?

 

[QC]

Re: Why don't most boats have mirrors?

Does yaw control exist on any vessels?

Yes, they are called trim tabs.

 

[southkogs]

Re: Why don't most boats have mirrors?

I've only heard of them as stand on and give way vessels

Those terms are used too.

...and thought of extending to termilology to the drivers of boats themselves, if for example, two people are going to the same port on the same boat and both are licensed skippers one could be the stand-on skipper and the other the give-way skipper. Can anyone here figure out what I mean?

So the skipper of a motor sailer is issued "privileged" or "stand on" status based on his sail power, but coming out of the same port a barge skipper is issued "burdened" or "give-way." First skipper drops his sails and switches on the screws 15 minutes out of port. 30 minutes later, under power at 8kts the motor-sailer encounters the barge at a bearing of 090 on course for a collision ... barge is lumbering along at a sloppy 5kts. Is it still a good idea for the motor-sailer skipper to be the "stand-on" skipper?

Same situation as what, sorry I don't understand. I am not familiar with the terminology like list, I have heard of yaw only in the context of motor vehicles.

A car experiencing yaw not inline with the direction of travel is skidding. If a car is experiencing a list (leaning to one side or the other) it's entering into a roll (unless he's in a turn at Daytona). Similar like an airplane a boat experiences travel along a vector (certain speed at a certain heading) while also experiencing the water in pitch (nose up and down), yaw (nose left and right) and roll (sides of boat going up or down). In a boat I can hold a bearing of 000?, with my bow/nose pointed 020? because I'm coming down a swell or wake with my port (left) gunwale at a 12? down angle as I roll down that swell or wake. It's very possible that the field of view my mirror would provide in the narrow river context you suggested would no longer let me see behind me.

BTW - not really trying to argue here, the discussion has been kinda' fun because my navigation is typically pretty vanilla. But, this information may be good for new boaters to read through as well.

 

[southkogs]

Re: Why don't most boats have mirrors?

Yes, they are called trim tabs.

Not contradicting, but additionally ... you can control yaw without trim tabs (your rudder influences yaw and roll). Trim tabs will also help with roll.

I hear roll, pitch and yaw more in aviation but the axis still apply to boats.

 

[Myrtonos]

Re: Why don't most boats have mirrors?

So the skipper of a motor sailer is issued "privileged" or "stand on" status based on his sail power, but coming out of the same port a barge skipper is issued "burdened" or "give-way." First skipper drops his sails and switches on the screws 15 minutes out of port. 30 minutes later, under power at 8kts the motor-sailer encounters the barge at a bearing of 090 on course for a collision ... barge is lumbering along at a sloppy 5kts. Is it still a good idea for the motor-sailer skipper to be the "stand-on" skipper?

No, I was reffering to two skipper licensees on the same boat, one of them gets to drive the boat (and is thus standing on) and the other is only a passenger (and thus giving way). I hoped that someone would figure that out. If your are always the stand on skipper when you go out on a personal boat (carries the same amount of passengers as a car) than you could be said to be a privileged skipper.

Not contradicting, but additionally ... you can control yaw without trim tabs (your rudder influences yaw and roll). Trim tabs will also help with roll.

I hear roll, pitch and yaw more in aviation but the axis still apply to boats.

If I were to decision maker, I would mandate trim tabs on all registered watrecraft if their top speed is high enough to requrie a skipper license. If you have a terrestrial driver licence and youlive near a navigable stretch or body of water, you should have a marine driver license as well, don't you think.

 

[RogersJetboat454]

Re: Why don't most boats have mirrors?

No, I was reffering to two skipper licensees on the same boat, one of them gets to drive the boat (and is thus standing on) and the other is only a passenger (and thus giving way). I hoped that someone would figure that out. If your are always the stand on skipper when you go out on a personal boat (carries the same amount of passengers as a car) than you could be said to be a privileged skipper.

Eh... Where to start...
What size "boat" are we talking here? Your typical private pleasure style "boat" here in the states typically does not require a captain/skippers license unless you for example are using it for charter reasons like fishing or whale watching. Some states require the person driving the boat to have taken a certified boaters safety course. Some states do have some form of licensing, which usually requires the applicant to take some form of boaters safety course, and they receive an ID like a drivers license after. And some states do not have any form of licensing, just a minimum age requirement to operate the boat (this one is probably going to blow your mind).

If we are talking about a commercial vessel, or something like a very large yacht, or a ship, or a tug. Thats when a captains license is required.

If I were to decision maker, I would mandate trim tabs on all registered watrecraft if their top speed is high enough to requrie a skipper license.

Speed does not determine what boats/ships require a captains license. That's typically determined by what class of boat/ship the vessel is as discussed above. Trim tabs on your typical pleasure boat most of the time are an addition made by the owner, and are usually added to the boat by the owner as an additional means to help a heavy boat get on plane. They are not really regarded as a safety device. Additionally, depending on the hull design, it is sometimes impractical or impossible to install trim tabs. There are millions of boats on the water that have been on the water for decades with out them, and with out incident.

If you have a terrestrial driver licence and youlive near a navigable stretch or body of water, you should have a marine driver license as well, don't you think.

No.
What's to say the person who has a drivers license wants to be a boater? Does grandma and grandpa need to get a boaters license because they live near a river, but have no interest in boating?

 

[southkogs]

Re: Why don't most boats have mirrors?

...then you could be said to be a privileged skipper.

Privileged (stand-on) vs. whom? If you leave the same port as a commercial barge in a pleasure boat that kinda' works in some situations. But what if 3 pleasure boats all leave port (1 14' fishing boat with a 9HP, a 35' aft cabin with twins and a 22 sail boat)? All three have "stand-on" status. Could you make even more rules to solve this problem? Sure. But EVERY boat on EVERY body of water would then be required to register prior to departure, and EVERY boat on EVERY body of water would have to have a constant feed of communication to update for each new vessel status entering the traffic pattern. You'd need "water traffic controllers" even on small bodies of water.

Right now you have static "rules of the road" that work, but in the situation you suggest you'd have fluid "rules" that change moment by moment and require heavy administration.

If I were to decision maker, I would mandate trim tabs on all registered watrecraft if their top speed is high enough to requrie a skipper license. If you have a terrestrial driver licence and youlive near a navigable stretch or body of water, you should have a marine driver license as well, don't you think.

No. I actually find that kind of idea creepy. In essence, you're proposing a legislated mandate of equipment (trim tabs and mirrors) and a complex system of regulation to support a navigation system based on that equipment. Ask the general aviation guys how that kind of stuff has worked out in the last couple of decades. You'll kill a major portion of pleasure boating and the marine industry along side.

Again ... all this 'cause you like to use a mirror and think everyone should? Seems a little much.

 

[JoLin]

Re: Why don't most boats have mirrors?

I can't believe this thread is still going... it passed 'stupid' a long time ago.

While we're at it, let's not forget the obvious need for turn signals, headlights and airbags on boats, fer chrissake.

:facepalm:

 

[southkogs]

Re: Why don't most boats have mirrors?

I can't believe this thread is still going... it passed 'stupid' a long time ago.

Probably my fault, mostly ... not quite sure why I'm hanging with it, but it's intriguing me for some reason. Seems almost like there's something more to it.

 

[haulnazz15]

Re: Why don't most boats have mirrors?

Stupid went out the windowby page 2, lol.

 

[RogersJetboat454]

Re: Why don't most boats have mirrors?

While we're at it, let's not forget the obvious need for turn signals, headlights and airbags on boats, fer chrissake.

Lets not stop there.... What about crumple zones, side impact curtains, 3 point seat belts with pyrotechnic pre-tensioners, and a tether system for baby car (boat) seats.